SecondLife Investor's Bank: Gaining Money Through Extortion?
Submitted by Taran on Fri, 03/16/2007 - 10:38
Yesterday, I had a run in with the 'CEO' of SL Investor's Bank in SecondLife. He'd cut 16m parcels near my land which I had to buy out at extorted prices, with the aid of a friend - subsequently, he has been submitted a second time to the Clocktower Blacklist Network. In it's place, and adjacent land, I have created a park in Foxboro to assure that it doesn't happen again. I'll sell pieces of it or the whole thing to people, but not for ads. It's a nice area. It should remain so.
However, this experience of buying him out to keep ads from near parcels which I sell has given me cause to look deeper into the practices of SL Investor's Bank. Bear in mind, I have had >great experiences with Midas Bank and have interviewed Ginko Financial CEO, Nicholas Portocarrero. Banking in SecondLife is not new to me. Banks which cut up 512m parcels to advertise are new to me. I have yet to see Midas Commons or Nicholas Portocarrero place ads on land for their respective banks on small parcels of land which were cut to do so. I said this in so many words to our friend from SLIB. Deaf ear, big mouth.
16m ads cause prices to go up for land. This is because people spend money to get rid of them - not a big secret - and that price is passed along to the next buyer. It seems questionable to me that a bank would use such practices, and it certainly seems questionable to invest in something which makes money through these practices.
Here's an excerpt from my personal transaction record; Linden Labs can verify if they wish:
Count ID Type Debit Credit Time Description To/From Balance 224349861 Land Sale 400
2007-03-15 13:19:32 16 SL Investor's Bank
12062 100 224349541 Land Sale 400
2007-03-15 13:19:14 16 SL Investor's Bank
12462 101 224349398 Land Sale 400
2007-03-15 13:19:07 16 SL Investor's Bank
12862 102 224349075 Land Sale 400
2007-03-15 13:18:51 16 SL Investor's Bank
13262 103 224347198 Land Sale 450
2007-03-15 13:17:21 32 SL Investor's Bank
13662 104 224344862 Land Sale 400
2007-03-15 13:15:33 16 SL Investor's Bank
14112 105 224344446 Land Sale 400
2007-03-15 13:15:15 16 SL Investor's Bank
14512 106 224344165 Land Sale 400
2007-03-15 13:15:03 16 SL Investor's Bank
14912 107 224343501 Land Sale 450
2007-03-15 13:14:34 32 SL Investor's Bank
15312 108 224342708 Land Sale 1650
2007-03-15 13:13:57 128 SL Investor's Bank
15762 109 224342349 Land Sale 1650
2007-03-15 13:13:40 128 SL Investor's Bank
17412 110 224333557 Land Sale 0
2007-03-15 13:06:57
SL Investor's Bank
111 224333516 Land Sale
6456
2007-03-15 13:06:56 512 Tyrian Camilo 19062
And I didn't buy all the pieces. Someone else bought the remaining pieces and gave me a donation toward helping remove the pieces. Altogether, approximately 8,200L were paid for a lot to the SecondLife Investor's Bank for land which was sold to them by me for... 6,456 Lindens. Gee. Maybe I should start a bank. I obviously don't have to have a very advanced business plan. And this is not extortion? Spinning SLIB ads all over the place? Raising the price of an affordable piece of land for newcomers into the exorbitant range? This is the grand investment scheme of an entity calling itself a bank within SecondLife?
But this isn't the first time I've run across the spinning ads of SLIB. I've encountered them next to my parcels of land before, and thus added them to the avatar-non-grata list that I place in my signs. Is this how the bank wishes to be perceived? Raising prices for 512m lots beyond the reach of new people so that the bank can give them loans? So people would... pay interest on something which costs more because of the bank itself?
But that's all within the limits of SecondLife's Terms of Service. I call it financial griefing. I call it unscrupulous. I call it shady. Maybe you don't call it such things.
It was no surprise to me to find a new piece of land in Foxboro - a 512m lot - cut with two 16m plots in it. At the time of this writing, a land parcel of 512m was cut by this bank into 480m with two 16m ads. The 480m parcel is for sale for 5500L. The two 16m spaces? 370L and 2000L payable to... SecondLife Investor's Bank. Here's the SLurl: Foxboro (200,248,61).
The average new person might not check how many square meters they are purchasing and think that the 5500L is for 512m. No, it's not - and since land tier costs to Linden Labs go up in increments of 512m, to fully use their land costs at the lowest land tier - the person would have to purchase the lots altogether for 7,870 Lindens. Remember that price of $6,456 that the bank paid me for the lot I recovered? Do you see how the money is made by this bank?
My personal recommendations to anyone: Do not support SecondLife Investor's Bank, you may have their ads next to your land soon and you'll be extorted to make them go away. If you want to bank, go to the ones that don't force you to pay them with advertisement extortion. Go with Midas Trust or Ginko Financial. Sure, the banks are unregulated in SecondLife - which is why reputation is everything. Is SLIB on the way to a good reputation? You tell me.
SecondLife Investor's Bank - coming soon to split a parcel near you and raising land prices.
As for the blacklists - I expect that the people behind SLIB will find themselves on more of them, not less. I hope they change their practices so that we all have a better experience within SecondLife - but until zoning comes to the mainland, the community has to do what it can to assure itself a good SecondLife experience. As for following me around and placing ads around my properties - they make the point of the community at every turn.
As for following me around and placing ads around my properties - they make the point of the community at every turn. Reputation is everything in SecondLife, where there are no rules to business other than very vague standards imposed by Linden Lab. To ask Linden Lab to regulate more seems a waste when the community can deal with the issues within these same vague standards.
I bought the cheaper plot.
Will donate it to the Arbor Project. ;-)
OK, now have 496m
I bought all but the 2000L 16m plot.
This isn't whole thruth
Want to know the whole truth? Wait for Blog opening.
I didn't extort, i don't do extortion.
Extortion is denying as a group of people one's right to conduct business on a free economy, and this group isn't even a real authority.
and look at your "blog", it's filled with ads and tag spam :)
Obviously we differ in opinion.
And when I bought most of that land again... you saw how the community reacted.
My blog - well, you don't have to come here, and the ads are done tastefully. There is more content than advertising - significantly more. They pay for the website.
I don't move next to your house and cut up ad spaces. You actually move in, cut parcels of land next to people, place ads and charge overmarket prices so that to protect their investment they have to buy you out. That, in my eyes, is extortion and financial griefing.
We're on to you.
As for your blog, well - if you write as well as you appear to act, it won't be very busy.
I urge you to change the way you do business, Tyrian. There is a better way, but you choose the easier and less scrupulous path. That will get you where you are... and further down. You can turn this around.
You have choices. Make the right ones.
Advertising...
You don't have a clue about website design do you?
Some creative criticism:
- Your site might be structurally quite good, but i'd pay attention to borders, bg image and colouring.
- Advertising: Taste is far from it when you have try to find the content between ads: sever or eight depending on how you count. Above fold sidebar content on quite normal resolution of 1280x1024 only recent comments, which usually isn't very usefull. Except for yourself.
- Counting 8+5 hardly is considered as a captcha :)
Now the need for advertising: Good hosting costs around 10bucks a month. You deal in real estate in SL. L$ has direct conversion rate of L$<>USD, and readily convertible, thus it equals as real currency.
10USD = 2660L$, are you telling me, you are having hard time earning this much? :)
Oh yeah, i can turn a smallish site, ~30k unique visitors per month, with frontpage only ads, and only - 2 - of them to make over 300USD per month, and
other one of them counts for 80% of that. You need only 1-2 well placed and
targeted ads.
Oh yeah, you didn't buy all the land back, Virtouse did some of it.
Now, this was my first cut like that, and it was done EXACTLY to annoy you, you stepped on my toes, and crossed the line.
Cutting 2x512Sqm to 4x256sqm is hardly this "eye sore" you mean :)
Oh, if it's that land for sale sign which annoys you: Look at your own...
and oh Please, oh Please, get your facts straight will you :)
Remember, you asked me to put that price for sale... and you didn't complain on the price. One single small question: Would you lower the price? Nope. Or: Could you combine them? Nope. You didn't ask anything, you didn't say anything, you simply went ballistic.
All it needs sometimes is to ask, and asking is free.
All it needs sometimes is to be polite, and being polite is free.
All it needs sometimes is to calm down, and calming down is free.
Oh you say also that it raises the land value if somebody cuts to 16sqm lots... So didn't i make an favour to you? >;D
- Get your facts straight
- Don't make any assumptions, get hard evidence (spying other's actions behind a fence... well...)
- Don't involve emotion to business decision. You are currently making decisions almost solely on emotion basis.
- Have some kind of integrity.
Integrity
Integrity :-)
Ok. How's this. You give me the money I spent getting your ads OUT of that area in front of witnesses. You give Virt back his money. And you apologize. That, Mr. 'CEO', would be integrity. But instead you try to blame everything on... everyone else.
Yes, I bought your land. Yes, I had choices. And I have no regrets of these choices because they have brought all of this to light. I sure as hell won't be banking with you. If you wanted me to buy those lots cheaper - you would have sold them to me cheaper, or given me money back. Instead you want to try a cheap shot about it on a public forum when really - you have the choice to do the right thing, you have always had that choice, and now... well, we see what it really is.
I wish you good luck in your business strategies. But just as today, if I see you pulling one of your tricks - expect it to be written of. If you want people to trust you with their money, you have to have scruples. To date, you have not demonstrated scruples to me. You accuse me of emotion but... you are rationalizing what you do as right because you really want to believe it is right. If you spent less time having to defend yourself against legitimate and verifiable issues you have created, you might actually get somewhere. Good luck on that. :-)
Oh, and your critique of the site - thank you. I have considered them, and after careful thought have decided that it was intended to get some sort of emotional response. Well, here's my unemotional response. If you don't like it, go away. But if you're going to step on toes, be careful. Some people don't steamroll easy - as you have found out... and as you shall continue to find out.
Don't blame the community for not liking what you do. Change what you do. Or go watch 'Old Yeller'. ;-)
Extortion
I don't know where you found your definition of extortion. According to Webster's New World Dictionary extortion is "1. a.) the act of extorting, or getting money, etc. by threats, misuse of authority, etc. (sometimes applied to the exaction of too high a price.)"
According to this definition, you have extorted, and you do, indeed, extort (the threat being loss of view (and therefore value) of the surrounding properties.) It is, further, an act of extortion to raise the price of your sale property, set up to annoy the neighbors into the buy mode. Misuse of authority means that as an SL neighbor, you don't care a whit about your neighborhood.
I wanted to check out "the whole truth" - but there is no link in your post. Should you not write it first before referring your readers to a blog?
I am one of those little people in SL who is stumbling around trying to get a bead on what I am doing, and I have no idea if I will be able to afford buying land when I am ready, thanks to the price gouging going on.
Incidentally -- you misspelled the word "truth" on your subject line...
Press Release
I wrote it few hours after that comment posting. Which for my stunning, was approved, so this should also be approved.
You were not there, now where you?
IM me in world and i'll give you the press release notecard.
Hehe.
Is this also your press release? :
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Foxboro/67/161/80
You're getting better at being bad. Good thing you're on the blacklist.
Huh?
I see you still cannot form a reference link in your messages.
*Thank you.* You make me feel so adequate! (see: [http://farm1.static.flickr.com/82/218879511_d8b3e6308a.jpg] )
You said, "You were not there, now where you?"
Where I?
I here.
(Where you?)
Actually, I am so new at SL I find it all I can do to fly around and watch things happen. I go where that takes me. I do, however, make note of those things which may help me or may hinder me from fully participating in SL in the future. Like buying land.
I do not feel like tracking down information which is not linked. I don't IM yet from SL (and not at all in RL!). I figure if information is to be widely read, it will be linked...I don't feel that is asking a lot.
Oh updated...
Didn't notice before you have updated your "posting".
What you describe would be stupidly bad business plan -- I would need a backing for hundreds of thousands of dollars and chances for success: Slim if any.
Second, none of land for sale signs i now use are spinning, and graphics are due to change also.
Third, one should always check how much land he is buying, i'm not advertising it as 512sqm or anything.
Fourth, the adcube you see there, is part of bigger plan to make SL a better place, yes i admit it, it's on a 16sqm lot and it's still under research is it viable. Why is for 2k L$? Because if somebody wants to get rid of it, he better sure pay more than the maximum rent is (bidding style), or they would just buy the parcel and put a large spinning one on the air, is that what you want?
Fifth, yes, those two 16sqm lots would have been the only ones in this sim. Hardly considerable as spam.
Sixth, Would you prefer eye appealing ads or spamvertising? Really, this is the bottomline question, i've spent a lot of research into this, and are looking for viable alternatives which are better for BOTH businesses and residents.
Seventh, That wasn't extortion, you had choices. You decided to make war, not love! Are you a peace hater? Destruction lover? I doubt. Why don't you just think for yourself, and do what's best for you and not start blaming and getting angry? Strong people, strong leaders, don't blame, they don't get angry for silly things. Strong people think for themselves, and tries to solve a problem peacefully and for once and completely.
Heh.
Tyrian, Tyrian, Tyrian.
You slice up plots and charge exorbitant fees. The math is there. You have no defense other than... this?
*buzzer*
Wrong Answer
SL investor's Bank has been
SL investor's Bank has been listed on several sites I have seen as bastards that cut up land plots and extort. Just get the word out so noone invests with them. I've seen their business plan anyway and it is massively nonliquid. One day they will have a run and we will see Ginko all over again. Timmmmmmberrrrr...
Good thing I googled...
I just got an inquiry from this "CEO" to purchase, "for a more reasonable price", all or part of a large plot for sale in my home sim and I figured I'd do a little homework before responding and stumbled across this page. It looks like that inquiry will be going unanswered as I have no desire to see my longtime home chopped up into tiny pieces with visual pollution. We got rid of that garbage in this area long ago.
Homework
Doesn't anyone do their homework AT ALL?
did search on google for: tyrian camilo mainostaulu
thats the adcut company
some results:
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-605
http://www.wselive.com/research/company/424
something i picked up from http://swassets.blogspot.com/2007_10_01_archive.html
"Mainostaulu Network (MAI) rallied on yesterdays lowest mark since IPO after another positive announcement that 1000 billboards have been reached and a "huge dividend" is apparently imminent. Closed the day on $L0.80"
and:
"Mainostaulu Networks (MAI) With 2 major shareholders fighting for price supremacy, this newcomer is beginning to find it's feet, unfortunately in the negative territory. Finishing down @ $L0.64"
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